Shoot, I was looking for the post to end the war... and all I got was a wall of text.

If I have a decent amount of SP into AV nades and I engage a tank in a city setting where I have boxes and stuff to hide behind and or enough cover to sneak up behind a tank, then yea, I should be able to solo a tank. The tank had no business being alone in that setting, and doesn't need a buff because of the results.

Tankers can solo all they want in Pubs, and they don't dominate. Yet most Tanker QQing seems to be in relation to Pubs, so I am naturally confused.

Oh hey, look at this interesting little tid bit-

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2005-03-29-abrams-tank-a_x.htm

You're talking about the Battle of 73 Easting Chase. Which was in 1991.

I agree with you 100%, especially the last part. But it has to go both ways. I simply cannot accept any Tank arguments when Tanks flat out refuse to work with anyone else. A Tank with 2-4 (good) infantry supporting it on foot should be nearly unstoppable. A lone tank should be at the mercy of whatever AV is focused on it (to an extent of course).

Based on real facts from the military. That sounds official. You mind sharing the source of these real facts? I never got aggressive, and you don't need to cut me any slack. And yeah, you need to clarify all your points because the one you made in your last sentence says that 80 of the most advanced tanks on planet earth were taken out by RPGs and roadside bombs. Soooo......

80, out of 1100, check that kdr out..... i think thats the point

you brought real life scenarios in with you 1st post, then attempt to prove you point by posting that link, which again, says 80 out of 1100 had to get sent home, (dust scenario, they went boom!) and again, 80 out of 1100 isnt many is it......

here read it again

"But since the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, with tanks in daily combat against the unexpectedly fierce insurgency, Army says 80 of the 69-ton behemoths have been damaged so badly they had to be shipped back to the United States"

"The casualties are the lowest in any Army vehicles, despite how often the Abrams is targeted GÇö about 70% of the more than 1,100 tanks used in Iraq have been struck by enemy fire, mostly with minor damage."

minor damage (dust scenario (taking my shields to 10, still got amour left))

why the **** your comparing video games to real life is beyond me though

i have both av prof v ccp buff tanks lol dunno what ur talking about op no aver honestly want vehicles nerfed more

1: From how the title sounded, and how you typed this up, you're neither AV nor Pilot, so why are you even talking?

2: WP awards for hitting vehicles up to a cap would make it perfect for them. Hit us until we run, keep on doing it, so if you're awarded, you still feel good for scaring it away, rather than killing it.

3: That's the whole premise of our argument: Even though I spent hours doing math on several fits trying to find the best fit possible, and spending months trying to perfect my skill, you just want to pull out a PROTO swarm and solo me in under 5 seconds. **** that, teamwork required. An HAV, a group of AV, EWAR, or a mix of the three should be required to either take me out of kill me.

2 fine no problem their.
But humour me this, why should it require a team of people to take down a tank? Is a tank worth more than 1 person?
Tanks are meant to be force multipliers, not 1 man/vehicle armies!

10men = 10men
10men > 10 tank
10men < 9men + 1 tank

Think about that, you make your infantry stronger, you do not act like a hero unit in risk!

That has nothing to do with the point I made!

10men = 10men
10men > 10 tanks
10men < 9men + 1tank

this is how tanks should work, it doesn't happen like this yet, it needs to!

If that's the case 1 proximity Mine should be able to blow up or completely immobilize a tank, "Plasma Cannons" should be 1-shotting tanks. IRL tanks don't roll in the Dust's type of maps without support, you'd get eaten alive by AV.

How are they getting behind you? Are you staying close to your infantry support? Are they running a scanner? Do you have a friendly LLAV remote ripping you? Or are you riding around by yourself trying to play god-mode solo-tanker and failing?

Exactly tankers should not rule the field. Unfortunately this appears to be what SOME tankers want.



You are aware you have just asked for tanks to become the very definition of an OverPowered weapon.

An overpowered weapon is where 1 weapon is so much more effective than any other weapon that the only way to combat it in 1v1 fights is to weild it.

We find it hard to take tankers seriously, when there are those coming up with this!

Im not asking for buffs!
The current av is strong enough!

But if 1 man can drive a tank, 1 av unit should blow up a tank, like it is now!
Thats all! We don't need av buffing we just want to make sure tanks don't get buffed to Spkr ridiculous levels.

Because maybe a tank shouldn't cost 2 mil. We have suggested making tanks slightly cheaper!

And to use your ar example

A more expensive ar will beat a cheaper ar
but the worlds most expensive ar isn't gonna help against a sniper at 300m, or a tank

It costing more does not guarantee power outside of your class.

I retort with the same response because you keep giving me the same starting argument!
l know my argument works so why would I change tact against the same argument?

Chase, Dunk., et all...

I have spec'd into AVs quite seriously. I don't drive tanks but I routinely volunteer to be a dedicated gunner & ground support for them. I also happen to have more RW experience with this than probably 99.5% of the folks playing the game.

My opinion, for what that's worth, is that vehicles vs AV equipment is actually fairly balanced (some exceptions to this at the proto level) and the ultimate leveler is the skill of the tanker vs the skill or numbers of the opposing team.

A decent tanker with some dedicated infantry support (even if it's just two guys that gun in turrets and dismount to disrupt AV or swarm on other tanks) is extremely difficult to stop with out a large portion of the opposing team stopping everything they are doing and focusing on the tank team. Solo tanking can be tough since you lose situational awareness. You dominate what you see in front of you but what you don't see is the swarms coming from your 6 or the AV grenades coming from your flanks.

Chase - as to your direct question above. It should be possible (notice i didn't say easy) for a single focused player that has spent the appropriate time, SP, and ISK to solo kill a tank. If the player is approaching the tank using cover, blindspots, ect. and can take advantage of the equipment and weapons with their optimal ranges and engagement angles there is no reason that it shouldn't be possible. The single biggest threat to a modern MBT is a motivated and undetected guy or two with a high end anit-tank missle. Once the element of surprise has ended and the AV guy or team hasn't killed the tank then the tank will know where you are and it's a whole different story.
(quick edit...you might not be seeing how many times that would-be AV guy dies to get the single tank kill)

Tanks, high end fighting vehicles, helos (read: dropships) that cost exhorbitant amounts of money are routinely heavily damaged or destroyed in modern war (Iraq & Afghanistan). Quick note...the "80 tanks" destroyed weren't the only tanks destroyed. That's just the number sent back to the States; the number of vehicles taking major damage that rendered them combat ineffective for periods of time but were reparied in theater is much higher.

I got up to you thinking that WPs can effect it's balance.

WP's have nothing to do with balancing.

Period.

Was it miltia?
The fact you NEEDED a nanohive means the tanker was an nitwit to stick around for so long.
An I must point out you really need a suit worth its weight

Finally I had yet to pull the argument about swarms being incapable of use against infantry, which you seem to overlook so easily.

16+ years Light and Heavy Cavalry, Long Range Reconnaissance & Surveillance, and other activites not apporpriate to mention. 49 mo's combat time, still on active duty.

Duran - thanks.

You point about the upfront cost helped a great deal. High initial entry for viabilty but to give scale up attributres it would create very significant 2nd order effects in game balance. My initial reaction is to give them the buff but limit the number HAVs that can be called in...not a good or "fair" solution either.

nice. mind sharing some stories later? would be interesting.

1-2. I'm sorry you're all hot under the collar Chase, but if you really want to keep arguing with me, you are going to have to actually read my posts at some point, lest you continue to make yourself look foolish. I am not an AVer, and I have to go back and read the whole thread but i'm pretty sure no one has called for AV buffs.

3. I didn't know they had tanks in CoD multiplayer. Is that true?

4. A very genral statement. Needs refinement to answer properly. Could be yes, could be no. Not a straightforward black and white situation.

5. That **** is annoying as hell isn't it Chase? The only thing I've got from you so far is you don't ever want to see a tank soloed by anyone or anything no matter what. That, and you keep misreading an article that was not used as a point, but a supporting argument. But keep feeding the fire, you tried to reference the article and got it wrong again, but I will get to that....

6. Lol, that's the only point I've been able to discern from your entire thread

7. Plenty of reasons were included Chase, but you have to read the whole article-

From the 1st paragraph (I've already had to repost this part Chase, you should have read this part already)- The U.S. military's Abrams tank, designed during the Cold War to withstand the fiercest blows from the best Soviet tanks, is getting knocked out at surprising rates by the low-tech bombs and rocket-propelled grenades of Iraqi insurgents.

From the 3rd paragraph- At least five soldiers have been killed inside the tanks when they hit roadside bombs

From the 9th paragraph- A favorite tactic: detonating a roadside bomb in hopes of blowing the tread off the tank. The insurgents follow with rocket-propelled grenades, mortars and gunfire aimed at the less-armored areas, especially the vulnerable rear engine compartment.

*whew* Anyway, Chase I would suggest you not be so hostile. While it may not be fun reading the posts of someone you disagree with, it is a requirement if you want to have a discussion, not a heated argument. I'm sure I have missed a few points you have tried to make, but I have done my best to read your (and everyone elses) posts and consider them. The fact that you still refer to me as "the AVer" shows you are just posting to post, and the moment you take a good verbal shot you want to switch over to some fantasy world where you are always right no matter what and other peoples opinions don't exist.

I try to be fair and open to new ideas, and if I don't agree I refrain from calling people "CoD fans", or "ignorant AVers". I'm sure I have made myself look like an @ss to plenty of people in this thread, and I do regret that. I must admit you have me pretty frustrated as well Chase.

But oh well, water under the bridge. I am happy to see people posting that at the very least understand the points i'm trying to make (Jaysyn, Monkey, thanks for restating and clarifying some of my points). I could care less if people listen to me, all I want is communal acknowledgment of valid points that need to be considered before any action is taken. Whether those points are accepted coming from my mouth or someone elses makes no difference.

And Jaysyn I just want to say thank you for your service and sacrifice. I'd love to squad with you, my weekday schedule is a little funky with school and work, but i'm usually on for a little bit around 11:00pm-2:00am ish, Eastern Standard. I'll hit you up next time i'm on (should be around tonight for a bit).

And Chase I would like to squad with you as well. You run a tank, let me run as your infantry support. I don't need to be in a turret (and prefer not to be). We could set this thread aside, run a few matches, and see what we see. Maybe it turns out a little infantry support makes all the difference for you. Maybe it turns out tanks are too weak and AV is to strong. I would imaging it would be somewhere in the middle. The best way to show off our points to each other is to squad up.

you have got to be ******* serious, or trolling.
1 person, easily destroy a TANK??? then whats the point of a TANK?
1v1 blaster, this isn't ******* COD kid, whoever shoots first, cod is that way>>>>>>>>>>>>
you mad that you can't solo a tank so you think you need to destroy a 500k tank in 1 hit? --_--

Never said destroy it seconds!
Never said make it easy!

I just said 1man should be worth more than a tank 1 man (An AV specialist) should be capable of taking down a tank by himself.
It should still require tactics an forethought on the avers side.

READ what I ACTUALLY write and you might find me a lot more reasonable than a COD lover!

If he is getting away fine, but how long should he survive in the "hotzone" without support?

Do Tankers realize that there are vehicles in the game meant to repair them and keep them alive?

Sometimes I get into a rare battle where a Team uses its collective brain and you see a LLAV behind a tank repping it.
Forge Snipe the (Shield) Tank and low and behold almost all the damage done to it is repaired before I can fire again.

Then why bring it up?

Chase, Dunk...

Sorry I missed you guys online last night...doing work for Corp.

That said, great game playing against you Chase. Once I saw you on the red board I had to give you some Scram and 'Nade waffles. You served a some back to me as well - good times.

Ok, that sounds fair, we may be looking at the arguement from different sides, but we want the same thing!